cummins excursion nv4500

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Cummins common rail into an Excursion

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For those interested in installing a Cummins in an Excursion, there is a very well documented and inspiring conversion on another site: http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=176490 The guy bought a used V-10 for a song, drove it for a year while he gathered parts, then did the swap out in his gravel driveway in November/December. He really did a fine job on it and posted some photos. V-10 Excursions are cheap, making it pretty easy to justify doing an engine swap...assuming you live outside of a smog testing area. Not sure about those legalities, and they may vary from county to county.  

hows the progress of your project clam?  

Still gathering parts. Waiting on a gasket set to reassemble the engine, bought a Dodge wiring harness to go with the Dodge computer I bought, so the engine won't think it's a freightliner. Couldn't find a freightliner (strictly Cummins) computer. I picked up a book of wiring diagrams for year 2000 F-650/F-750 and it looks like there is a lot of wiring similarity between it and my Excursion, so maybe it will help me wire up the engine ECU and the Allison transmission TCM so that the factory gauges work and the ECU and TCM will talk to each other. I also found a link on another site that has all the wiring diagrams for Dodge, so it's going to be like mixing 3 different puzzles together and trying to make one picture that makes sense. I've still got a lot of things to figure out, so until I do, the wrenching can wait until I at least THINK I have a clear pathway from beginning to end...and the weather warms up and the overtime gets cut back. Thanks for asking. After seeing that website with the converted excursion, I'm pretty pumped up about it. What a sweet combination. I think the thing that is most discouraging is the cost of switching to an Allison transmission. By the time I buy the HUGE cooler with 3/4 or 1" lines, beef up the tranny, buy a torque converter, wiring harness, and a 4x4 tail shaft housing along with a direct bolt up transfer case, switching trannys has the potential of costing in excess of $12,000. No joke. I highly doubt I'll spend that much money. Torque converter, cooler and a shift kit maybe. My tranny was remanufactured when I bought it, just not with the super high performance stuff, so if I take it easy, it might last a while, hopefully at least until it's totally inconvenient to deal with. I noticed on Ebay that there is a guy in Portland, Oregon who is now making a bunch of different do-it-yourself piping kits for installing several different compound turbo combinations. That might be a good option for me and I need to investigate that, otherwise buying a fully made kit that already has turbos in it can easily cost $5k and up, especially if you add in external blow off valves and waste gates, which is actually a good way of doing it because then the setup is tunable.  

WOW...doesn't sound like you'll be doing this in a gravel driveway..it will be very interesting to watch it progress.can't really wish you luck (not necessary)..hope it goes as smooth as possible..  

I read the whole thread. I wonder if he put too much work into it putting in a new computer controlled engine. A nice mechanical injected 5.9 will work very well and no computers to deal with other then the trans and cluster computer. Personally, I think the guy deserves a Nobel Peace prize for the level of work he put into the thing. I rather give it to him then to Al Gore (ack!). I met a guy in NJ who installed a 90's vintage 12v into an 80's vintage dully Chevy. He said it was an easy transfer and boy did it sound sweet!!! I have to admit those Cummins have an awesome sound. mark  

Thanks William, I appreciate your continued interest. Believe it or not, that's encouraging to me. I have a concrete driveway and a single car garage that the Excursion won't begin to fit into, but that's WAY better than doing an engine swap on gravel. rock_doc- I read the whole thing in one sitting too. It's a great read and very nicely documented. The guy just does outstanding work and his methodical, patient approach is a good example to follow. I'm sure I'm going to have some driveline length issues because my engine has an SAE#3 housing on the back of it, so the tranny will have to scoot back a ways, and with my luck, I'll probably have to chop a big hole in the floor and fire wall to accomodate it. I'm NOT going to do a body lift because it's 5" too high already and a PITA to climb in and out of despite me being 6'3". I debated about doing a mechanical 5.9 and nixed it because of my needs for the vehicle- commuting and needing high mileage and towing very heavy. The mechanical versions are basically locked down at one power range vs the HPCR 5.9 you can just reprogram like the 7.3 or 6.0. I'll also have no problem passing smog testing if the need ever arises. I currently live half a block outside "the zone."  

nice work on the conversion, please keep us posted as progress continues. was there any reason not to use your BTS behind the cummins get the amp research folding steps to accomadate your need for a body lift.  

I posted a response but it has not shown up. Maybe it got firewalled... The short of it is this- to clarify, the excursion on that other site is NOT my rig. I hope my conversion looks as nice as his when I'm done though. I'll gladly keep everyone updated with progress whenever that happens. Weather and work schedule as well as the need for some expensive parts (perhaps a suncoast torque converter) have me had me stalled for months, but I'm slowly gathering the goods. BTS tranny: my 35" tires with 3.73 gears makes the spread between gears too wide for a 3 speed with overdrive. The Allison is a 4 speed with overdrive, and I have the option of going with a double overdrive. May end up switching gears anyway though. From what I've heard, straight 6 engines have a narrower torque band than a V-8, and the gears were too far apart for the 7.3 IMHO. The Allison is a very expensive option though. It would have been far cheaper to keep the BTS. Coldair, I'll take your recommendation for the step under advisement when I have extra money to blow. I have to figure out if I'm going to be into a body lift or cutting the tranny hump because of the unusual engine with the rear gear train AND the SAE#3 housing.  

Clam, Is the allison you have a 1000? Or something different from a frieghtliner? I am interested in doing the Cummins CR swap in my wifes EX...But I am looking into a 5R100. I may be able to get a Allison 1000 6 speed for pretty cheap though. We'll see. Brent.  

I bought a 5 speed Allison 1000 freshly remanufactured. The expense for an allison is at the back end when it comes time to hook up a transfer case. My rear housing is for a 2wd, so I have to change that too. Suncoast has one for around $1,200, but then I still have a spine size difference, so another option for me might be a divorced transfer case, or else I need to buy one that fits the allison or somehow adapt my transfer case. Not sure if that last one is possible.  

You probably thought of this already but what about a GM tranfercase intead of the Ford one... I don't have the time and money spent like you have spent on this swap...So please except my lack of knowledge suggestions. I was planning to use a CR Cummins 2003-2004.5 model year with a 5R100 or Allison 1000 6speed. The adaptors are obviously available aftermarket to bolt them all together. Along with the transmission modules to make them shift. As for the transfercase region??? We'll see, I'll probably do whatever you do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif I guess being the pioneer for a project Clam isn't fun all the time. Brent.  

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BDS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You probably thought of this already but what about a GM tranfercase intead of the Ford one... I don't have the time and money spent like you have spent on this swap...So please except my lack of knowledge suggestions. I was planning to use a CR Cummins 2003-2004.5 model year with a 5R100 or Allison 1000 6speed. The adaptors are obviously available aftermarket to bolt them all together. Along with the transmission modules to make them shift. As for the transfercase region??? We'll see, I'll probably do whatever you do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif I guess being the pioneer for a project Clam isn't fun all the time. Brent. </div></div> It may not always be fun but it's always expensive. I'd stay away from the Allison 1000 unless you can pick up a used one with the transfer case attached and includes wiring and Transmission Control Module (TCM), and that's assuming there are adapters to go from the engine you choose to the Allison. The SAE #3 housing is about 7" thick and was used between Cummins / Allison setups in UPS style step vans- but that creates a length problem for drivelines, and I have yet to see if I'm going to have to do a body lift or cut out the tranny hump. My advice, keep it as simple as possible. Read that entire thread that I posted a link to if you are serious about doing a swap and note that that guy spent a YEAR collecting parts and doing research. I've been at it since the end of last march ('07) and still have to assemble my engine. The rest of the gasket set arrives next weekend. BTW, gasket sets are spendy...obscenely so. There are currently NO aftermarket modules to interface the cummins with the allison unless I find a Cummins computer, and I've given up and bought a dodge computer. The GMC TCM will probably have to operate as a stand-alone without engine input, and I've heard good and bad rumors on doing that. I can't tell you about the other tranny options because I haven't investigated them. Simplest solution is get the entire powertrain out of a dodge pickup and have that tranny built by Goerend (spelling ?) Brothers. That's what the guy I linked to did.  

Clam, I may be confused but check out THIS link and scoll down...Half the way down is the adaptor plate to bolt a Cummins to a Allison 1000. Then scroll to the bottom of the page and there is transmission moduels for the Allison 1000. The description says "Stand Alone" so I do not know for sure but I figured it meant it is the brain needed to make the Allison 1000 work in transplants like yours and hopefully mine. I also thought that the TS performance truck was using a Cummins 24v with a p-pump and a Allison 1000. Brent.  

Oh yeah, sorry, I forgot about the Destroked adapters because I'm not using one because of the SAE #3 housing that came with my engine. I bought an Allison 1000 that fits the SAE #3 which is a different bolt pattern than the Allison 1000's in the pickups. They build good products and I think that is probably the better way to go- at least you won't be cutting the floor up that way. As far as I know, the stand alone controllers from PCS for the Allison 1000 do not exist. The rumor I heard was that after a couple years of expensive R&D, they gave up. The closest thing available is the ATS "CoPilot" http://www.atsdiesel.com/atswebsite/ProductsGM/CoPilot.asp However, if you look at the technical data, it appears that it is set up to run ONLY behind a Duramax, therefore it is not a stand alone. Please double check that as I only spent a couple minutes looking. You might want to call them and see if they think you can hook it up to the Cummins ECM. If you do, let me know what they say. There are some folks around that have tinkered with the Allison TCM and there are witnesses who swear that the trannys run great disconnected from the engine ECM. So it's risky being based on rumor and subjective second hand comments.  

The last I read on the PCS controller controlling an ALLISON was that it would randomly go into reverse while traveling at highway speeds. The ALLISON uses a very unique shifting method and is very difficult to duplicate.  

That would be ugly as sin. There's some guy who lives in the Seattle area that supposedly knows how to make the stock unit work well as a stand alone. I'm inclined to believe that there is probably a way to pick up signals between the engine and tranny because I have a hard time believing that Motorola would actually spend the money to reinvent the wheel. I'm just running on a hunch, and only time and experiments will tell. I just wish that the ECM and the PCM were "open source" software instead of proprietary to the Nth degree. But Cummins isn't going to release their software, Motorola isn't going to divulge their secrets an neither is Dodge or GMC, and they would all have to agree for that to happen to benefit me. It would also put the makers of aftermarket programmers out of business, but I've spent $1,200 or more already programming the 7.3 and it's now junk- and the truck only has 117,000 miles on it. As an aside, I'm going to be pissed if all of my PM's got dumped in the change over to this new software, and so far, it looks like they are gone.  

June 27, 2008 update: Been busy and broke, but I'm pecking away at it. I've moved the firewall back 6" adjacent to the steering column to make room for the engine mounted air compressor for onboard air. Don't do it- it's not worth the effort. Last night I finished installing the shift kit in the Allison 1000 and I also installed the super heavy duty output shaft housing from Suncoast so the transfer case won't break off the back of the tranny. I bought a rebuilt transfer case that is the same as my stock 273F, but it has the correct input spline (manual tranny) to match the Allison automatic. It also has the reluctor wheel installed in the tail shaft so the tranny will get the right output speed signal in 4 high and 4 low. The Suncoast housing is drilled to match the 273F at the correct angle for the Excursion. Today I went to the wrecking yard and got the pigtail for the go pedal, necessary for the 2005 cummins ECM to operate. I won't have to bell crank the TPS that way. However, I'm striking out so far in locating a wiring harness for the Allison. Been to the dealer, wrecking yards and Allison, but nobody has one. Not sure what to do at this point. St.Clair Technologies builds the factory harnesses but I'm not sure if they will sell just one. I'm going to test fit everything this weekend and deal with the mounts. I still need a bunch of small stuff to get it running, but at least I'll have it out of the garage...I hope.  

you a mean one MR gulch :domotwak:  

cummins into ford Hey, There is a company near where I live, its in Kalispell Montana and its called fordcummins.com and they do cummins conversions into fords. They have all kinds of mounting kits, etc for putting a cummins into the ford. I just talked to Dave there today, and they are finishing up a Excursion conversion and they are using the ford 5 speed torqueshift tranny. He said it had a v10 too at birth. Just thought this might be some help as they have done it a ton of times and sell parts to do it. Hey, I was even thinking of selling my powerstroke x and looking for a limited v10 for dirt cheap and going with the cummins but this is a daily driver right now. Hope this helps!  

I'm determined to do mine myself- the hard way, and certainly the most expensive way...so it would seem. I'm working out final details on my firewall mods today. Engine, Tranny and T-Case have all been in together to check clearances and motor mount locations. Final trim and patch work going on now and I'll dress the engine with the accessories before it goes back in and gets bolted into place. Tranny mount arrives tomorrow, but I have to build a whole new cross member because the T-case is in a different location and rotated down far enough that I can't use the stock one.  

Have you considered converting to a manual transmission in the Excursion? I wonder if that would be cheaper and very unique  

I feel the need to make a comment on the manual transmission issue. I admit that at first I was thinking of getting a manual transmission (I was looking at pickups in addition to the X), but a few test drives with the torque shift convinced me otherwise. There is no longer any palpable advantage to manual transmissions --- modern automatic transmissions are smart and efficient. Add to that the fact that any clutch dealing with 500+ lb/ft of torque is going to be a bit of a bear to work with and it pretty much makes sense to use automatic. Add to that the fact that many fleets of large trucks are converting to automatic transmissions as they last longer and are easier to service (all the smarts are electronic rather than oodles of little parts (like what make up modern syncromesh)) And you're left with a manual tranmission simply being a status symbol and a method to discourage people from wanting to borrow your truck.  

I'm really looking forward to having this Allison 5 speed mated to the Cummins for the reasons Zaphod names. I installed a shift kit which meant dismantling almost the entire tranny, but I was able to reassemble it quite easily with a tranny book. It's a lot easier than I had ever imagined. If I needed to rebuild it, I now know I could do it myself. But I'd leave the older trannys and even the manuals to a professional rebuilder. I think a torque shift behind a Cummins would be an outstanding option if the truck originally came with one, and I'm sure someone will do one sooner or later. Mine came with a 4R100, which I had BTS build, but I sold it because it has one less gear than the Allison. Also, if I change the valve body, I can bump my Allison up to a 6 speed (double overdrives).  

any news? ..I just bought a 12V Cummins repowered excursion. I am finishing the previous owners unfinished stuff etc and Taking the Truck in a slightly different direction. The Excursion has a 5 speed NV4500 in it now . I am debating swapping a new '07 G56 I have set aside for my first gen dodge ..into the excursion. This would help bring the gear spacing on the shifts closer, and would be nice for my wife (the intended daily user ha). The G56 has a new southbend Fe clutch here in the box..while the nv4500 has a enterprise dual disk in it now and that is a nice shifting setup when you don't use the clutch..Thats fine with me from using the big trucks, but my wife is still not used to that yet. whereas the G56 and single disk south bend FE would be like a regular manual trans etc. Hope to hear see more about your conversion. Thanks Deo  

Well, I quit my job July 25 and moved from Washington State to South Carolina. I finished the sheet metal work on the firewall and glassed it in that same day. Soon as I finished, I dashed to the airport so I could start my new contract job on July 28. Guess where the Excursion still is. I'm hoping to get my son to finish it, or at least get some things done on it while I'm here. I have to send the Suncoast tranny housing back- they misclocked it for a monster show truck. If my son doesn't work on it, I won't get to it until probably June or July...or maybe August, then I'll spend another year's vacation pissed off because I have to work on it instead of driving it to Alaska.  

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The Novak Guide to the

Nv4500 transmission.

New Venture Gear was the somewhat unlikely merging of the two manual shift design & manufacturing divisions of General Motors and Chrysler Corp. The Muncie (or Stewart Muncie) division of GM and the New Process division of Chrysler became New Venture and one of the first fruits of this union was the NV4500.

The NV4500 was first released in Chevy / GM trucks from 1992 under GM RPO code MT8 and GM part #12346190. It was introduced into Dodge trucks in 1995. Though it has it roots as the New Process 4500 four-speed beginning as early as 1972 in Dodge trucks, its current incarnation as we know it today is quite different.

Identification

The NV 4500 is a top loading five-speed transmission with a cast iron case, aluminum top cover and dual PTO ports. It features all helical gears, and is fully synchronized. The NV4500 has a case length of 12.37". 

GM 4wd versions featured an extension housing length of 6.5". There are various other Dodge and GM 4wd and 2wd housings. This housing contains fifth gear and as usual, 2wd style housings are longer.

A unique feature of the NV4500 is its fly-weighted 1st-to-2nd gear synchro assembly, preventing a downshift at excessive revs. Its unique synchro ring composition requires a special synthetic lubricant.

Transfer Case Adaptability

The Chevrolet / GM 4wd version of the NV4500 can be adapted to the Jeep:

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Adaptability to the  NP231 transfer case  can be acheived when using a Dodge 4wd style tailhousing. However, a change of mainshaft or transfer case input shaft will often be required due to spline count.

Engine Compatibility and Adaptability

The NV4500 is found in GMC & Dodge trucks. The bellhousing pattern for 1993-1994 GM versions is unique from the later (1995-) GM and Dodge units. The 1993 and 1994 Chevy versions have a lower first gear of 6.34:1 and an unsynchronized reverse gear. Transmissions after this period have a higher 5.61 low ratio and reverse gear synchronization.

The input shaft for the 1992 Dodge NV4500 was 19 splines with a 1" diameter, like its predecessor, the Dodge NP435 . All GM units and 1993+ Dodge units have 10 splines with 1-1/8" diameter. GM input shafts protrude their usual 6-5/8" while the Dodge units are 7-5/8" long.

Because of its length, moderate gearing, weight and overdrive, the NV4500 is probably best suited for higher powered Jeeps that require a strong transmission with an overdrive gear. If oversize tires are being used, some Jeeps may never see overdrive and lower axle gearing may be in order to compensate for the NV4500's taller low gear. We are often asked about the durability of the NV4500 vs. the SM420, SM465, T18 and NP435 truck four-speeds. We've spoken with GM and Dodge mechanics that have seen some 4500's come through their facilities for repairs for breakage, but this is most often due to too heavy a truck getting in situations it shouldn't be in. For the purpose of Jeeps, the strength issue is nearly irrelevant due to their agile and lightweight nature. 

Make: New Venture Gear Length: 18.9"  Weight: 195 lbs. Case: Cast Iron Top Cover: Aluminum PTO Ports: Both Sides Gearing: 6.34, 3.44, 1.71, 1, .73, R 6.34 or, 5.61, 3.04, 1.67, 1, .74, R 5.61 

A cutaway view of the 2wd style NV4500 as found in GM applications. Image courtesy of GM Powertrain.

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Using a V10's NV4500

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Last I remember, the 6BT and the V10 used the same bellhousing and trans. BUT......is the flywheel the same? This is for another guy doing a 4BT swap, and using the Dodge NV4500 setup to match his 96 Dodge 6BT. Doesnt the 4BT and 6BT share the same flywheels too?  

i have delt with several 4bt's in industrial app's, but never in auto app's. the flywheels have the same bolt pattern, and i would suspect would/could be used between the two. as for the v10 and 6bt, the v-10 has a different flywheel. the clutch set [may ?] be used between the two, the same goes for earlier year gm diesels and gasser's. they shared a clutch, but NOT a flywheel. ford diesels shared nothing in common with their gasser counterparts. as you state, the v10 uses the same tranny as the cummins, but the nv4500 used behind the 360 v8 cant be used.  

So the v10 has the same bellhousing. Is the input shaft, clutch, throwout bearing the same? Thanks Jake  

I just looked up, the clutch parts are the same too. That should help.  

The flywheel will be balanced different, and the output of the trans is lighter duty. I found this out when trying to find a yoke for the NV4500HD that I picked up. The HD version is built heavier, and is unique in it;s output. This should help a bit: http://www.offroaders.com/directory/products/NV4500.htm  

I thought the Cummins and V-10 used the same 4500 cast case HD model.  

I thought so too. The article says it: " Dodge standard duty units come in trucks with the 5.2 and 5.9 liter engine, while Dodge HD versions are used with Cummins diesels and V10’s."  

I was thinking Viper V10, didn't even think about the trucks... my mistake.  

I'm pretty sure the Viper uses the T-56.  

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Excursion 12v/nv4500

Moderators: Greenleaf , BC847 , Richie O

Re: Excursion 12v/nv4500

PToombs wrote: Why did you overdrive it?

thrashingcows wrote: Damn that is looking sweet! What model of Volvo runs the Taurus/T-bird style motor on the electric fan? Inquiring minds want to know.... That tone wheel looks friggin dangerous! Should be on a table saw somewhere hacking up lengths of lumber....

Gots_a_sol wrote: Pro tip, use these clamps instead of the cheap u-clamps that come with the exhaust kits. Sooooooo much easier to deal with/make adjustments/take apart later.

Gots_a_sol wrote: So the belt I bought would fit

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NV4500 History

The NV4500 came into existence out of sheer necessity. From 1989-1993 Chrysler used the GETRAG G360 Transmission in all of it's Dodge Ram trucks but was on the hunt for something more robust to give their new line of trucks an edge over the popular Ford 150. In the 1980s Ford was the King of Trucks which featured the popular 5 Speed M50D , ZF5 and E4OD transmissions during the decade. The torque and towing power of the GETRAG G360 were severely lacking behind that of Ford and GM. The transmission faced reliability concerns as the 5W-30 motor oil would often reach high temperatures that degraded the lubricity of the oil and cause the bearings to fail. Something drastic needed to be done to put Dodge Ram Trucks on the map.

Executives at Chrysler reached out to rival General Motors to see if the two companies could put something out in the market that could compete against Ford. New Venture came into existence in the late 1980s with the merger between GM and Chrysler's heavy duty truck transmission divisions. The two companies found it to be more both innovative and cost effective to share resources instead of competing. The Muncie division of GM and the New Process division of Chrysler merged to become "New Venture Transmissions". The very first product produced by the company turned out to be a homerun right out of the gate with the NV4500 5-Speed Manual Transmission which replaced older 4 speed models.

The NV4500 concept has roots with Chrysler going back to 1972 with the New Process 4500 four speed transmission. The bones of the transmission were updated and first installed in 1993 GMC trucks under the GM RPO Code MT8. In 1995, the transmission was adapted and then released in Dodge trucks (Mostly Dodge Ram Vehicles). In 1995 the new model of the  Cummins 5.9 L contained a more powerful P-7100 fuel pump which facilitated the need of a more powerful NV4500. The NV4500 rolled out to sufficiently handle the 420 HP and 175 ft/lbs of torque with the new 5.9 L engine. Later models could handle up to 460 ft/lbs of torque. The NV4500 was last produced in 2005 year Dodge Rams capping a 12 year run of the transmission.

NV4500 Benefits and Product Specs

There are many conversion kits available for all kinds of vehicles but the real modification work is making the engine and transmission fit with suspension and axel modifications. Enthusiasts all flock to the NV4500 because of its heavy duty top loading capabilities, dual PTO ports, all helical gear design, granny low gear for towing and fifth gear overdrive for fuel efficiency. The bearings, gears and case are all incredibly durable and resistant to wear.

The NV4500 dual power take-off is popular with the 4x4 Swap crowd due to its light weight, durable frame, short length and reliable design. The NV4500, much like a 4BT Engine , is built with strength and simplicity in mind. This is an old school transmission. In fact, there are about 1/3 less moving parts as a modern 6 Speed Manual current transmission for a Dodge Ram Heavy Duty Pickup. Less parts equal less maintenance and downtime issues. All NV4500 models are built with a cast iron case and composite aluminum shift cover for maximum structural integrity.

There were several variations of the NV4500 that were produced over the years for different GM and Chrysler vehicles. The older 1993-1994 GM and Dodge applications had different gear ratios than the later 1995+ models. It took a while for the engineers to decide on a standard gear ratio for the transmission. Consequently, heavy duty applications for Cummins Diesel and Chrysler V10 engines feature an elongated input and output shaft which is not present on some of the gasoline engine applications.

Speaking of the elongated case length the NV4500 has a case length of 12.37” and an extension housing length of 6.5”. All 2WD housings are longer but the OEM stock housings contain the fifth gear which has some issues which will be discussed later in this article. What makes the NV4500 desirable is the unique fly-weighted 1st-to-2nd gear synchro assembly. This design prevents downshifting during excessive revolutions which is a fail-safe mechanism to save the transmission. The synchro ring arrangement requires a unique synthetic lubricant which can be a hindrance (see below) but overall the composition of the transmission will save a lot of wear and tear.

Important Lubrication Information

Lubrication of the NV4500 is one of pitfalls of using this transmission. The synchronizers are composed of carbon fiber and are susceptible to failure if not properly lubricated. The transmission fluid and viscosity levels required for the NV4500 are narrow in scope. The original early 1990s spec fluid is Castrol Syntorq 75W-90 GL-4 which has become nearly impossible to source these days. We don’t believe Castrol even makes the stuff anymore. ACDelco, Lucas Oil and MOPAR Fluid are acceptable replacements with 75W-90 and 75W-85 options that contain the GL-4 lubricant.

GM and Chrysler still offer their own proprietary lubricants with 12346190 and 4874459 as the respective parts numbers on the transmission fluids. In recent years, enthusiasts have found Amsoil makes a 75W-90 manual transmission fluid that is a cheaper alternative to the above. It meets the needs for the NV4500 at about half of the cost of the recommended OEM GM or Chrysler fluids. The NV4500 and NV5600 are oftentimes considered to be interchangeable however it is important to avoid any transmission fluid marked for the NV5600 as it is not compatible for the NV4500 model. There have been many customers that have ruined their NV4500 using MOPAR 4874464 transmission fluid which is only rated for the NV5600. They thought it would work for both and found out the hard way!

Issues with the NV4500

Size, Noise and Adaptability: Even though the NV4500 is small, the length of the NV4500 is not optimal for doing Jeep Swaps. It will fit but will require some modifications. There are thousands of successful NV4500 Jeep Swaps Rebuilds out there but it will take a professional modification shop to get the job done right. Doing a Swap as an amateur can be problematic. The longer crankcase of the NV4500 over the shorter Getrag G360 makes it quite the difficult mod job to fit properly with the suspension lifts and the motor mounts. It will fit a standard JK, TJ, YJ, CJ and XJ Jeep matched with a 4BT however the fit usually isn’t 100% ideal causing vibrational issues. The Cummins 4BT is already prone to vibration and noise . When you add a less than perfect pairing of the transmission to the engine via suspension modification you are going to have u-joint stress and weakness. The transmission is also fairly tall and bulky over a stock Jeep transmission which will require signification modification to add the necessary ground clearance. Installing the transmission can incur expensive labor costs due to adapting the transfer case to the engine and/or working on clutch linkages. Don't let these issue scare you, this is part of the fun of doing a diesel engine swap install!

Clutch Splines: The NV4500 is a durable old school transmission. The casing and gear structure are solid all around. That being said all transmissions will encounter strength issues if you look hard enough. The NV4500 does have some structural weakness in the transmission’s mainshaft clutch splines. Overuse of 4th and 5th gears will cause fatigue and wear between the splines and the corresponding mating hubs. A standard 4-Speed Manual or Automatic Transmission will exhibit better longterm durability without a 5th gear. The “Missing 5th gear” mentioned below in this article showcases that not all transmissions are bulletproof.

Gear Ratios: The NV4500 is an attractive choice over 4 Speed Transmissions due to its 5th gear however it really isn’t significantly better than other heavy duty transmissions such as an SM465 or SM420 because the gear spans aren’t that much greater. They are better but not by leaps and bounds. You are looking at gear spans of 7.71 and 6.96 with early and later models. Overdrive can be an effective “go-to-gear” but choosing the right transmission with distinct and separate gear span ratio might be a better alternative while out on the trail. That being said the NV4500’s most guys are perfectly happy with gear ratios of the NV4500 with the optional use of overdrive.

Price: The NV4500 is a very popular transmission and was hailed as the best ever produced for medium and heavy duty trucks. This is the go to transmission for 4BT Swaps. Units that have been remanufactured go anywhere from $2,000-$4,000 whereas used ones will still fetch a $1000. The advent of overdrive and the addition of oversized gearboxes will drive up the price of any transmission. eBay, junk yards and rebuild shops are the most popular places to find NV4500 Transmissions.

NV4500 vs. NV6500

The NV4500 Transmission is the go to tranny for the 4WD enthusiast however some opt for even lower end torque with the NV5600. The NV5600 was produced by New Venture between 1998-2005 and was installed in Dodge Ram 2500 and 3500 Series ¾ and 1 Ton Trucks. The 6 Speed Manual NV5600 was an improvement to the NV4500 with 550 ft/lbs of torque.

For those looking to do a swap into a Jeep or Land Cruiser the NV5600 is going to way too much tranny for such a small frame. The NV5600 is 360 lbs. vs. 195 lbs. for the NV4500. The NV5600 also has a much larger shaft and cast iron case. The NV4500 is 18.375” long with the bellhousing. The NV5600 is 31.36” with the bellhousing. If you are swapping an NV5600 into any truck application you will have no problems making it fit.

The NV4500 is plenty of transmission for most 4WD enthusiasts. You won’t be towing large loads in a Jeep outfitted for off-roading anyways. If you are towing with a Jeep you need to get your head checked! The one advantage the NV5600 has is that it splits the NV4500s 3rd gear into two separate gears which make the tranny perfect for towing. 6 gears really isn’t necessary while out on most trails. The mid gears (4th and 5th) in the NV5600 are so close together it isn’t worth the headache unless you are towing loads and need that small incremental increase in the amount of torque when going up a hill.

NV4500 Specs

Transmission Model : New Venture NV4500 Manufacturer: New Venture Gear (GM / Chrysler Combined Company) Models Produced: • 1993 - 1998 GM 6.5L • 1994 – 2005 Dodge Ram (5.9L) Number of Gears: 5 Speed Manual Transmission with Reverse Synchronized: All Forward Gears Case: Cast Iron Cover: Aluminum Composite Main/Counter Shaft Bearings: Timken Tapered Roller Case Length: 12.375” Max Torque Rating: 460 ft/lbs. Rated Gross Vehicle Weight: 14,500 Dry Weight: 195 lbs. Oil Capacity: 1 Gallon Transmission Fluid: Stock, 75W-90 Castrol Syntorq Benefits: Dual Cone Synchronizers (Carbon Fiber) • Dual Power Take (PTO) • V-8 Application: 1.125” input shaft • V-10 Application: 1.25” input shaft • 10 Spline Functionality • 29 Spline 1.50” Output Shaft Preceded By: GETRAG G360 Followed By: NV5600

Final Word on the NV4500

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Written by John Clifford

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what size clutch to use in nv4500

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I have a dodge nv4500 4x4 that im using in my build that stock has a 12" flywheel. my motor was a stock 130 ppump that i had the pump sent out and delivery valves 5 fuel plate afc tuning mac plug set of injectors and different turbo thats pretty much it on performance side stock bottom end. My 2 options that I want for clutches are SouthBend 12" single disc 350hp 650ftlbs using your 12" flywheel for $413 or SouthBend 13" single disc 400hp 800ftlbs and comes with a new 13" flywheel for $730. Now I think my motors not gona be anywhere near even the first limit but Industrial Injection seems to think that it might be close to 300 so the first clutch might not be enough. Also my 12" flywheel is used so I would get it resurfaced, is that a waste and I should get a nice new flywheel so maybe the 400hp is worth it. Or is that complete over kill? and I should just use my flywheel thats in good shape and just get it resurfaced and just get the 12" 350hp clutch package.  

If the flywheel you have is in good shape, I'd say resurface it and go with the 12". Sometimes used flywheels are heat stressed and don't resurface very well. Have it checked before spending the money on it. Unless you're doing something crazy, either the 12" or 13" will hold up to anything a 4bt can dish out.  

Yes I agree with Char on the clutch and flywheel, pretty much what I did. I only got the flywheel very lightly turned though. As I recall Cummins suggested that the flywheels not be resurfaced because of the particular method of surface heat treatment used on them. However friends of mine had their's resurfaced with no ill effects and mine was kinda grooved and needed it. Worked good so far and the 12" cutch has been enough for my needs for about 6-7 years.  

I agree with the others, the 12" 350 HP clutch should be fine. If this a heavy vehicle, tows decent weight, or you're planning to be driving hard, boosted launches, more upgrades etc, you may want to step up. I would start with the 350hp clutch myself and if it didn't hold, I'd sell it with the resurfaced flywheel, with low miles as a package and recoup a bit of your money towards the 13". I know both your options mentioned were South Bend but Valair offers a 13" upgrade clutch with flywheel rated at 350/800 for ~$650.  

I probably should have included that its going in a first gen early bronco thats is very small and light with no intensions to ever tow anything. And valair is my 2nd choice as they are the next best brand to southbend but for the 75 bucs difference in the 2 brands 13" clutch and flywheel packages id rather go with the better southbend. Plus the ebay seller throws in 6 free amsoil quarts when u buy the southbend!  

I have the valair 13" 350hp organic with the stock spring hub, hold my 1st gens turned up pump and fuel pin. My welding truck weighs 9200lbs and there is no slip at all. If I were you spend the money and get a good clutch so your doing it once.  

The one on the right looks like a flywheel from a nv5600 are you sure of its origin?  

Clutch ? I'm running a Southbend , 12" clutch in my truck ,a little pricey ,but has not slipped since I put it in a year ago , ,and I have BEAT The Sh!t out of it  

Well since my flywheel is for the 13" I guess that made the decission for me so you can just buy the southbend 13" 400hp clutch package minus the flywheel for $485 + 40$ to resurface my flywheel = $525 and im using a flywheel that origin is un known. Or for a 200$ difference at $727 I can get a brand new entire southbend 13" package clutch flywheel and all and the ebay seller throws in free quarts of amsoil. II feel for that diffetence ill just go that route.  

That is the 6 speed flywheel, to run that you need a starter spacer because the ring gear is in a different location. Most aftermarket clutches use these in their 13" clutches. The center bore is larger than a 12" flywheel for the larger spring hub. Just buy the 13" clutch kit w/o the flywheel and a starter spacer  

Make sure you don't get a clutch with the hd spring hub, the gear rollover noise in N is unbearable! Get a stock spring hub  

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The Unique Burial of a Child of Early Scythian Time at the Cemetery of Saryg-Bulun (Tuva)

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In 1988, the Tuvan Archaeological Expedition (led by M. E. Kilunovskaya and V. A. Semenov) discovered a unique burial of the early Iron Age at Saryg-Bulun in Central Tuva. There are two burial mounds of the Aldy-Bel culture dated by 7th century BC. Within the barrows, which adjoined one another, forming a figure-of-eight, there were discovered 7 burials, from which a representative collection of artifacts was recovered. Burial 5 was the most unique, it was found in a coffin made of a larch trunk, with a tightly closed lid. Due to the preservative properties of larch and lack of air access, the coffin contained a well-preserved mummy of a child with an accompanying set of grave goods. The interred individual retained the skin on his face and had a leather headdress painted with red pigment and a coat, sewn from jerboa fur. The coat was belted with a leather belt with bronze ornaments and buckles. Besides that, a leather quiver with arrows with the shafts decorated with painted ornaments, fully preserved battle pick and a bow were buried in the coffin. Unexpectedly, the full-genomic analysis, showed that the individual was female. This fact opens a new aspect in the study of the social history of the Scythian society and perhaps brings us back to the myth of the Amazons, discussed by Herodotus. Of course, this discovery is unique in its preservation for the Scythian culture of Tuva and requires careful study and conservation.

Keywords: Tuva, Early Iron Age, early Scythian period, Aldy-Bel culture, barrow, burial in the coffin, mummy, full genome sequencing, aDNA

Information about authors: Marina Kilunovskaya (Saint Petersburg, Russian Federation). Candidate of Historical Sciences. Institute for the History of Material Culture of the Russian Academy of Sciences. Dvortsovaya Emb., 18, Saint Petersburg, 191186, Russian Federation E-mail: [email protected] Vladimir Semenov (Saint Petersburg, Russian Federation). Candidate of Historical Sciences. Institute for the History of Material Culture of the Russian Academy of Sciences. Dvortsovaya Emb., 18, Saint Petersburg, 191186, Russian Federation E-mail: [email protected] Varvara Busova  (Moscow, Russian Federation).  (Saint Petersburg, Russian Federation). Institute for the History of Material Culture of the Russian Academy of Sciences.  Dvortsovaya Emb., 18, Saint Petersburg, 191186, Russian Federation E-mail:  [email protected] Kharis Mustafin  (Moscow, Russian Federation). Candidate of Technical Sciences. Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology.  Institutsky Lane, 9, Dolgoprudny, 141701, Moscow Oblast, Russian Federation E-mail:  [email protected] Irina Alborova  (Moscow, Russian Federation). Candidate of Biological Sciences. Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology.  Institutsky Lane, 9, Dolgoprudny, 141701, Moscow Oblast, Russian Federation E-mail:  [email protected] Alina Matzvai  (Moscow, Russian Federation). Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology.  Institutsky Lane, 9, Dolgoprudny, 141701, Moscow Oblast, Russian Federation E-mail:  [email protected]

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Please help!!!! NV4500 popping out of first gear

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Valair hasn’t helped me, the forums or fb groups haven’t helped me either. This is my last post about this, but I’ve gotten nowhere and I’m stuck so I’m really hoping someone here can help me. I bought a Nv4500 off marketplace for a 5 speed swap. I installed it, never had 1st, hard to get into reverse. I pulled it to get rebuild. New main shaft, new counter shaft, basic rebuild, new 1st, 2nd, 5th gear, new 1-2 slider. I reinstalled transmission and I still don’t have first or reverse. If I shut the truck off I can shift it into first, only for it to pop out and make a really aggressive banging noise when clutch starts to engage. I can’t get it into reverse unless truck is off. The rebuilder told me the top cover looked “good”. I’ve been told my 1-2 slider and reverse slider are backwards. That’s not the case because my sliders weren’t backwards before the rebuild, when I had the same problem. I’ve been told my forks are bad, worn, bent, etc. The only thing I can imagine it can be is my top cover with shift rails and shift forks. But I’m also not sure why that would cause me to only be able to shift when truck is off. I’m pulling the transmission again to bring it to the rebuilder. This is my 4th time pulling the trans this month. I want it to be my last. Bang out of first: YouTube Short Pop out of first: YouTube Short Shifting with truck off vs on: YouTube Short Please help!!!  

Welcome. Sorry for you troubles. I am not a 5 speed expert at all. I do have some thoughts. Is the clutch completely disengaging? It does sound like something is installed backwards o there are spring loaded plastic licks that are not sliding all the way together. I had an issue like that inside my transfer case, I had slide gear in backwards. Either way it should be the responsibility of the builder to bust it apart and check his work. In these situations problems like this are almost always due to mechanic error. Did you put in new sincro's? Do the forks fit snugly into their plates and slides ? Do they have plastic pads on the ends or direct metal to metal?  

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